(BSP) (Railway Protection Police) as identified by ink stampings located on the inside cover flap being BAHN SCHUTZ and RBD/Rbd (ReichsBahnDirektionen) ESSEN (RUHR). Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. The first stamp of WwMg/41 may signify Waffenwerk Magdeburg. pistols were rejected at the acceptance procedure it would explain that these were replaced with some pistols in the v block. Ordnance Department in August 1901 for troop trials with the U.S. Cavalry, Match it with this DWM Model 1900 American Eagle Luger, DWM Model 1902 Luger Semi-Automatic Carbine Rig. Receiver proof, some 1920 Military and Police Lugers. It is interesting to note that in TBLAP, VIII, C19, page 1266 Sturgess states the following: regarding the police cleaning rods: For this purpose, the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), which was too bulky to fit into any holster (cleaning rod sleeve) compartment and in any case served no purpose if carried on patrol. German: Foreign Mfg. This is one heck of an obscure way to do it! ad[7]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Marna.jpg'; The American, British and French allies in concert with Germany restructured the western Berlin Police to reflect the western democracies as illustrated by the then leader of the free world; another picture. Click here for translation of first page of volume II. This 1920 commercial Luger was manufactured from a rebuilt WWI military pistol and sold through an Argentinian retailer, leaving it with both Buenos Aries and German markings. Most observed are reworks with double date or blank chambers of DWM and ERFURT.(shown below) The eagle proof differs from recognized Police Luger eagle stamped holsters, which are usually not associated with E/WaA control numbers. Pictured is a 1941 dated SCAMBACH & Co BERLIN brown leather police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1, view 2, view 3 and view 4. Berlin government dissolved the Einwohnerwehr. Normally, as stated above, these cut-back artillery holsters utilized a toe plug, in this case the subject holster is about of an inch longer, allowing the leather smith enough materiel to fold over the toe opening, mostly conforming to the 1929 and later police holsters. It was procured from private stockWhat real difference would it make to the Heers WaA if they ordered a new holster or procured one from existing stock? Army, Navy, Police, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Still. that the German police exceeded the limit of 150,000 by 30,000 men and Spain attempted to extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections. The E/WaAJL16 is, by all accounts to date, similar to, or a variation of, the acceptance stamp for Factory Guard/Werkschutz issue. These consisted of the following city and Collectors tend to err toward a variation. It does however have a small chip on the left pistol grip above the magazine release button and the magazine does not match (blue body, aluminum base "+" spare with "2" and w suffix) The dealer wants $1,200 firm but not sure if that is fair price. He does not mention if the pistols had been serialized at that time; if so these might have had serial numbers in the 's' block (Dwight might be helpful here). period and evaded restrictions placed on them. A single example exists of an extremely rare 1943 dated variation, made of impregnated pressed paper and is pictured in TPLAP, V3, page 1245 Fig. Regarding the completely intact magazine safety of 4559t, very few of these police Lugers survived as nearly all of these magazine safety assemblies were deactivated by cutting off the front end of the mechanism under a decree of May 1937. Featured is a WW2 police style holster marked WaAJL16 on the rear between the bell loops along with a 4-digit 1108 believed to be a Police P.08 serial number. We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week! Take care and thanks for the quick response. He should work on the internal corsage, promote public security, order and tranquility and, above all, give every citizen the opportunity to fulfill his moral duty to exercise his intellectual and physical strength to the full. that the Schutzpolizei had a military character. It is curious that the subject converted LP.08 holster, however, lacks the horizontal stitch line that secures the bottom edge of the holster body inner liner found on all observed artillery LP.08 holsters, original and converted. The first toggle link is marked with the Mauser Commercial Banner Code. 2: 1,223: DWM unit marked. Below is continuing description of the second and final conversion. There is one other cut-back artillery LP.08 holster converted to a P.08 similar style holster, except that it is unmarked and, as such, cannot be associated with police use. 19-130 text caption Sturgess specifically states that the cleaning rod pouch of the pictured cut-back artillery to police holster, currently of the LOB collection, was modified to carry the police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, which is inaccurate as the police brass stop cleaning rod with a seven ring wooden handle cannot be inserted past the added, upper leather cleaning rod pouch section, securing cover flap brass stud as the bell-shaped, rather large 13 m/m diameter brass stopper, permanently affixed to the much smaller 5.5 m/m diameter of the steel cleaning rod, engages the protruding internal metal retaining lip of the added cleaning rod pouch brass stud. The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. 46 of these got executed in the years 1946-50 by firing squadrons of the Danish police. The Police Lugers: German Police Lugers and Their Markings 1918-1958 book is in very low demand now as the rank for the book is 5,705,216 at the moment. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in German Small Arms Markings From Authentic Sources by J. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. Hesse, Saxony, and others. Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris. ad[1]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash1.jpg'; These bayonets were carried by all Police, and since Germany was a Police State, there were a lot of them. License and control of businesses; street lighting; control and upkeep of road surfaces; night watchmen; wells & water conduits; fire fighting; street begging; public health; passport, registration, and aliens' affairs; the Theater Police; the Market Police; servants office; embezzlement; control of gambling; the Morals Police; trade affairs; issue of hunting licenses; control of mentally ill and insane, and facilities for them; supervision of trucking matters; construction matters; and . All P-08 Military Lugers. Additionally, since the subject holster body attached cleaning rod, cut-back from the original, approximately 230 m/m length to 180 m/m length (or 210 m/m total with the added 30 m/m section) leather pouch/sleeve is original to the holster body, as attested by the original stitching. It has a 100mm (4") barrel, is modified as a police issue with a sear and magazine safety, plus it has a police unit identification markings. view 3. Decoding these proof marks is very useful in determining the age and history of the gun. feared that an expanded police force would become a ready reserve for the As Dwight's database shows, most of the blank toggle Lugers have "t" and "u" serial number suffixes. rotating clockwise the short collar section, about 270 degrees by 1) rotating the threaded, knurled The issue date of this unknown maker Police pistole cleaning kit is post 1945, as after World War II as Wrttemberg was in the newly-founded States of Wrttemberg-Baden and Wrttemberg-Hohenzollern. In the publication History Writ in Steel by Don Maus 2009, chapter 6, page 86, Figure 6-6 discusses and shows a similar marked, cut-back artillery holster, unfortunately, showing only the holster marking, not the holster, leaving the exact configuration of the holster unknown, thus making the subject, uniquely modified holster, the only known published example. Subsequently, one would expect the resulting increase in height of the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve to require the higher relocation of the cleaning rod cover flap yet, interestingly, there is only one, apparently original cover flap stitching line evident as shown by an internal view. 1374v. The first 1920s Weimar era police Luger holster of new manufacture to be recognized as such is not manufacture marked is a black dyed leather, full cover flap with a holster body attached, pear-shaped up-strap secured to the cover flap without a keeper via the leather slit and brass stud method. ad[5]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/wittmann.jpg'; by Igorak89 07 May 2016, 13:07, Post . Note the late 1920s and early 1930s Prussian state police brown holsters are Landjgerie and black holsters are Schutzpolizei. $1,000. This is division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun #3009 on the back strap. The added cover flap leather keeper strip is correctly attached with single line stitching. ad[0]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/germanmilitaria.jpg'; It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set. The markings on the right side shows that this P08 was manufactured in 1939 by Mauser, Oberndorf and used by POL izei (Police). Die neue Polizii, welche grunstzlich fr den Uusendienst bestimmt und uniformiert ift, versieht nicht nur den allgemeinen Sicherheitsdienst, fondern hat auch fr die Frhaltung der Ordnung, Ruhe und Reinlichteit, fr die Bertehrsregelung, fr die uissere heilghaltung der Sonn= und Feiertage, das Gesangenentransportwesen und schlieslich fr die Beachtung der wirtschastsportwesen Grundstze Sorge zu tragen. Furthermore, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers that are much smaller than the earlier and larger Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters and of the subject Police holster. Retains the original loops on the back for straps, no belt loops. I would guess that Simson was doing a lot of military sales in 1926, and since it was a commercial venture, DWM stepped in. officially discontinued. Thanks, Dwight, for setting the record straight about these blank toggles. The note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum. One of just 1,000 made, it includes Cyrillic safety markings and crossed Mosin Nagant rifle engravings (Photos: RIA). Regarding the necessity to modify a cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve to accommodate a Police cleaning rod is questioned, as the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster, as stated earlier, was acquired with a Police steel shaft cleaning rod with brass stopper, fully inserted in the original, unmodified cleaning rod pouch/sleeve, albeit a cover flap modified by adding a section of leather, allowing the cover flap to completely close over the seven ring wooden barrel Police cleaning rod handle. The subject WaAJL16 stamped Police style holster is the first one of two noted examples with the second WaAJL16 stamped holster being a P.08 Army style holster which has generated much collector speculation and opining. It will therefore be easy for all police officers who are familiar with the content of the book to find their way through the reworking without difficulty. Polizeiwehr Police Lugers: German Police Lugers & their markings, 1918-1958 by Tinker. The WaA107 stamp is not mentioned or listed in Luger Holsters and Accessories, 1992 by E. Bender and not much is known of the WaA107 army inspection stamp as it has been found on only four holsters to date, listed below, and a 1930s Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector: Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866 with an additional, unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. As to whether any police Lugers were used in caliber 7.65 mm is uncertain, however, one example pictured in Luger Variations by Harry Jones 1959, page 291 titled: 1920 POLICE WITH CHAMBER MARKINGS with the claim that during police service the Sear Safety Luger was chambered for the 7.65 m/m cartridge. View First Unread . Eagle over 83 is the marking for the responsable acceptance office for Mauser (WaA83). Tim. Used by Police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment. $175.00 Like New Condition. It should be noted that the World of Lugers Proof Marks 1977 by S. Constanzo, page 108 pictured E/Mg10 eagle is a different style from the subject E/Mg10 eagle. 3. eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, Hard to find historic variation. Specifically, the reason, thought to be for the exact length of the cleaning rod shaft from the tip to the brass stop of 135mm when inserted through the 4-inch barrel installed muzzle protector, extending though the barrel, is meant to end flush to the chamber face. And when new information comes out, sometimes "old" information is shown to be wrong. Der Polizeibeamte seiht sich daher den vielseitigen Uusgaben gegenberstehen. It is possible the second conversion was even later, around the start of WW2, and if true would 19-105, formally of the Dr. G.L. This example is a very rare 1943 dated military contract piece in 9mm, one of just 300 produced that year. Was it a difference in caliber or what is obvious that I am missing. Buy GERMAN LUGER P08 POLICE MAGAZINE WITH DOVE MARKING EARLY POLICE VERY RARE: GunBroker is the largest seller of WW1 & WW2 Collectibles Collectibles & Militaria All: 961041063 . I am interested in the following symbols on the bottom side of the magazine, too. If you collect Lugers, you need this book. 1. III. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Furthermore, all books required for the use of the police schools in all areas of knowledge on the most favorable conditions are to be obtained from the assortment of the next edition. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. Caliber 7.65mm - 4.75" barrel. In the organization of the police, disorder is of decisive importance for the regulation of the individual types of police, without which the reconstruction of this direction, which is so important for the state life, would have been a problem. German Police Lugers and their markings 1918-1958 by Edward B. Tinker and Dwight Gruber; 2012 1928 (Undated) "Riff" Berlin Mauser Rig (Police) SOLD. luger1. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force were ammended in Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. The Inhalt or Contents are comprised of nine sections of Roman numerals I through IX, ironically called Bush or Books with I through III in Band I or Volume I and IV through IX in Band II or Volume II. A rank of 1,000,000 means the last copy sold approximately a month ago. Waffenfabrik Bern - Bern, Switzerland&break;7. "The Flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. Three are police. With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. It is the Eagle/Mg10 stamping that requires explanation. TBLAP by Grtz/Sturgess, 2011 & 2012, VIII, on pages 1262-1264 and pictured on page 1262, Fig. In the manual is pictured the P.08 Luger on pages 17 and 26. Pictured are the cover, page 1 and rear cover of a rare 1949 Berlin, German Police manual for the Landespolizeischule Erfurt or State Police School, Erfurt. In a typical attempt to demonstrate its political autonomy, the federal Estimated Price: $ 5,500 - $ 7,500 Price Realized: Details Scarce German 1936, Dated S/42 Code Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol Rig with Two Matching Magazines and 1936 Dated Holster Manufacturer: Mauser Model: P08 Type: Pistol Gauge: 9 mm Luger Barrel: 3 7/8 inch round Finish: blue Grip: walnut checkered Stock: Item Views: 9264 Allenstein district. This assumes that the cut-back Artillery to Police holster and the modification of the cleaning rod/pouch/sleeve and cover flap were contemporaneous operations. ERFURT LUGER 1920/1917 POLICE REWORK - C40363 9mm; 96% blue, 40% straw, very good bore, good grips, 4'' barrel, This is a Police reworked pistol. It has the matching last two digits of the serial number in the various other parts. It is also pictured as part of a police grouping consisting a period 1928 dated Police manual titled: 1928 Nr.7,1 Vorschrift fr die Waffenausbildung der Shutzpolizei or 1928 Nr.7,1 Regulations for the weapons training of the Police and an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster along with a 1929 Police Luger, rear gripstrap marked L.W.58 (Landjgerei Wiesbaden, weapon number 58) with original, unmodified magazine . regiments which supplied its guns. These numbers were accountability numbers and were assigned to the policeman that carried the bayonet, as it remained the property of the issuing city. Per Weimar Lugers by J. Chapter 1 Making Modern Germany Chapter 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks 18: . And in closing, a little German Police marching music Hoch Deutschland Marsch Hermann Richter Grosses Blas-Orchester der Schutzpolizei Berlin. Police Lugers by Edward B. Tinker & Dwight Gruber This book has some very interesting chapters that many other luger books do not have. Reportedly next to the remaining lot of 2,760 of these readied blank toggle pistols also a small quantity of unmarked toggles came from Berlin to Oberndorf. Pictured is one such P08 police grip strap example, compared against variation 1 muzzle protector 2866, where no additional marks were added. The military character and Heinrich Krieghoff - Suhl, Germany At least six pre-production Lugers are known to exist. Simply a guard at a warehouse. He must have the intellectual armament for his exercise of the environment so completely that he always meets the right. Pictured is another modified example. made LP.08 holster, cut-back modified/converted in the Weimar era for use with a police P.08, 4-inch barrel Luger. Diese Frwgungen mssen die Grundlage fr die Uusbildung des Polizeibeamten bilden. Hierdurch werden die jungen Polizeibeamten vor neue Uufgaben bgestellt, die sich um so schwieriger erweisen, als die neue Polizei nicht nur die Gesahren politischer und wirtschastlicher Kmpse abwehren, sondern vor allem ihrer eigentlichen frheren Tatigfeit zugesuhrt werden foll. 1933-1945: Mauser Lugers. When is the right time to sell back 9780985833503 Police Lugers: German Police Lugers and Their Markings 1918-1958? But there is a very great difference: Gestapo was German, working in enemy-country. by Igorak89 05 May 2016, 21:24, Post "Jt" being the abbreviation for the Ingolstadt HZa. 435 Municipal Police Berlin unit 13 Pistol s/n 9140e. 355. All Rights Reserved, Lugers! Still, however, somewhat refutes his prior reportedly statements, five years later in Weimar Lugers 1993 on page 181, Figure 47a text caption where he dismisses the (carry) use of the police cleaning rods with cut-back artillery Luger holsters where he states that: These (police cleaning) rods probably remained in Army or police stations as the brass stop prevents them for fitting in holsters. The only known publication that mentions the E/WaAJL16 stamping is found in World of Lugers, a.k.a. The Germans used the letter "J" instead of "I" quite often to avoid confusion with the number "1." The holster was dyed black as evidenced on the holster body back panel original brown color. swiveling wooden barrel shaped handle, implying the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool. Die neue Reichs= und die preusishe Bersassung haben bereits einige wichtige Orgnzungen ersahren: weitere Gestze sind in nachster Zeit zu erwarten. the vast majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles. Knowledge is power, this applies to everyone who is in public life and strives forwards, but especially for the police officers, because his job brings him into close contact with the population every hour. The 662V serial number described in the text caption was substituted with 873V. The table of contents identifies the handling and operation of all pistols used by the German police in Dresden in 1946. monogram markings appear on the 1st toggle link and the extractor is marked 'Geladen' (Loaded). By the 19th century, disputes over the use of Fraktur or Antigua typeface became more heated and lasted until the middle of the 20th century. Upcoming Auctions Auctions Near Me How Auctions Work | Help . arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who By signing up you agree to Guns.com's A 108 is found in the upper right backside corner, what could be considered a Police serial marking? Apparently, all post 1926 police style holsters were not made exclusively for the German Police as unmarked commercial Police style holsters have been identified. When Himmler took over the police in 1936, it was decided to continue with the wear of these bayonets, however, they were reworked. For the rest, however, there has been a tendency to warn the book in its existing form as far as possible. 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. 3. Akah made commercial holsters in the 1920s and 1930s with some used by the Germen Polizei. They're not Nazi at all, just Imperial German. In Third Reich Lugers 1988 by J. the police cleaning rod was used in conjunction with a Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector attached to the P.08 sight band/block, many collectors and dealers are not As a matter of note the police cleaning rod could be used without the barrel attached muzzle protector. Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, Since the first edition was published in February d. Zs. The seller states that: It is said this marking was used to indicate issue to security guards at military installations. links[6]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in Brass stud added to the (cover) flap, additional brass stud added to the cleaning rod pouch. August Weiss states further that the 'Riff' lot was produced by DWM late 1927 - early 1928. $60. The second being a 1920s chamber stamped commercial P.08 Luger 9754r that is forward gripstrap police marked lengthwise S. M. 1704. or (Prussia) Schutzpolizei Mnster 1074 - Protection Police, Mnster district 7. Founded in 1999. by von thoma 07 May 2016, 02:26, Post not the case with the subject bayonet with original Weimar era matching accountability numbers. ad[2]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/JRBMbanner.jpg'; Pictured is a German manufactured commercial holster, original pistol model unknown, converted to accept a P.08 Luger pistol by modifying the holster body entrance.
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