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PDF PROOF MARKS ProoF MarKs - NRA Museum New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Please - no questions about your old guns. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Britte Frres It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Hi, Jeremy. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof These might cursive as well. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. significance or purpose. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Collette Lopold Can be without star and ring. Bovy Thodore Joseph Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum to share our findings by this means of communication. this location now so you can return often. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. Can you send me some, Ed? One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Very helpfull once again. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . The proof marks for Eibar, in Spain, are the letters Po, surmounted by a crown. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Ancion Jacques & Cie Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger Serial Numbers. Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Sorry I can't be more helpful. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. These include the Bertrand Antoine Home | Login | Register. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Courard Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. I'll test it very cautiously. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques Thanks again for the help! Christophe & Montigny Does it reach the touch hole? Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Bonzon & Arents & Cie Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Members . Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Thanks Brandon. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture Baker, David J. 4 0 obj The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). I can send pictures of it. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Its weight Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 - HLEBOOKS.com Bayet Frres Can you add any details? Proof will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber "Any maker's name or place of origin? location, rather than a manufacturer. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia 1870-1898. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Christophe Louis Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Board Of John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Thanks. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. cases. thanks for the help so far. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. Berleur Michel These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Belgian Proof Marks Help Needed - The Snipe Hunting Forum http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. Four barrel . Buy Belgium Shotguns For Sale At Auction | Invaluable Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Bodson TH. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Thank y'all again! After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. A "Greener" double? The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation.